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tv   Book TV  CSPAN  October 28, 2012 10:30am-11:00am EDT

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liberal. and kelley becker asked me to tell you hello. >> how do you know kelley? [inaudible conversations] stay on the side because of you start the trend, it will take too long. >> either way, my handwriting is a little worse. did it come out? while i was blinking? >> all find out when i get home. >> you're going to love it. >> when frio, one from ikea.
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[inaudible conversations] >> i'm sorry, did i spell that wrong? >> the other one is for nina. thank you so much. >> thank you for coming. >> okay, keep them moving here. >> hi, my name is john. i've read all your books and this is very timely. [inaudible conversations]
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>> so i did to leave oklahoma? there's a lot of oil out there. you can't drill? >> i join the military, spent 20 years there. >> good for you. thank you for your service. thank you for coming. >> okay technically, no pictures. you can do them on signing. >> your dad? ibooks come out right before father's day. i hear that a lot. >> is actually my birthday. >> happy birth day. >> i meredith, by the way.
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>> i want to see where you were. >> i work at the center for public justice. >> what's that? [inaudible] >> good for you. that's a new group? [inaudible] >> for richard and cecilia? >> thank you. >> you don't have to.
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>> that's my aunt actually. >> nice to meet you. >> what's your name? >> hello, tim. >> i'm in sales that very rarely speechless. thank you. very nice to meet you. >> you should hang out when they're selling the book then. >> this is you? also encase i ever ever need dental work. >> deal that sent? [inaudible] >> thank you. thanks for coming.
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[inaudible conversations] >> was his name? >> nelson. >> when mrs. bert? >> hollowly. >> are you giving it to him for his birthday? >> yes, i am. thank you so much. >> i am from columbia. >> you dated even with that. >> what happened to your ankle?
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>> you did a better summary of my book. -- [inaudible conversations] >> excellent, thank you. thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] >> you know, it's so hard to summarize the book right after you've written it. and i read your review and i can't do this. this is perfect.
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[inaudible conversations] >> it is so nice to meet you. >> yes, surely will. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> my handwriting is much better when i'm looking.
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[inaudible conversations] >> nice to meet you. >> nice to meet you, too. this is where my son, zachary. >> thank you. tags for coming. >> thank you for coming again. [inaudible conversations] >> now, democrats are about to move on for blacks and hispanics because they bicker. [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> what's your name again? >> michelle. not michelle obama. >> hello. >> nice to meet you. >> my name is logan.
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>> i'm a writer myself. a few months ago i had an op-ed in the daily caller. >> i just came from there. i love those guys. do you go into that office are you just e-mail a? >> no, i just e-mail it. i'm a writer in my spare time. >> i should've had she sat up and talk and explain the new unemployment numbers. >> thank you very much. [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations] >> you're welcome. thank you, robyn. nice to meet you. >> happy fit the fifth anniversary. >> fantastic. one is that? >> today. >> well, then happy anniversary to you, too. >> thank you, dear. >> thank you. >> for more information, visit the author's website, ann >> as part of the tvs university service can we visit campuses across the country and talk with professors who are also authors. this week were at the u.s. naval academy in annapolis, maryland and joining us is professor
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aaron o'connell, who is the author of this book, "underdogs: the making of the modern marine corps". professor o'connell, when was the marine corps established? >> the marine corps was established in 1775, but it's something of a myth.??? marines always claim n-november 1775, but that's actually the date that congress authorized the creation of the marine corps. they never raised the battalion? of the continental congress allowed for. >> one were battalions raised? >> they never were. but the first went into new uniform on november 10th. it's still celebrated the world over as the marine corps birthday. >> what was the marine corps' reputation? >> the job originally was to be the guys on ship quite frankly. they protected officers from the crew. it was a pretty difficult thing to sail a ship in the 18th century, so that people there people there to enforce. so the marines principal job is
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they would also serve as neighbors originally. but they're very small. it's a very small part of the navy. >> in the marine corps' completely separate from the navy now. >> dairy sector service inside the department of the navy. but this became really contentious throughout the course of history. a corporate claim and they served aboard ship that they should follow the rules of the navy, the regulation of the department of the navy. when they served assurer to the army bishop of the regulation of the army and eventually in 1832? became a separate service inside the department. >> out of their mission change? >> commission didn't change so much then. there've been ship cards offer to the 20th century, but they were something of a jack of all trades. they would do other jobs as well, most often serving as landing parties in the navy would send sailors on punitive expeditions, the marines would always participate in that.
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in the start of the 20th century company took on a variety of other missions, colonial infantry in haiti, philippines, nicaragua and before world war ii, they started creating amphibious landing forces. they became experts in amphibious operations. >> what was the marine corps' reputation throughout much of this? history???????? >> not very good quite honestly? everybody thinks about the marine corps today is the most? procedures or elite of the majo? armed services and has? been?? validated over the last 12 years, routinely the american people see most prestigious service. it wasn't that way even at the start of world war ii. at the start of world war ii, they found them to the profit rowdy. parents found them to be the least desirable associates and they were right last week in the least popular service in a nationwide study. it was pretty similar to that in the years prior, too. these are pretty big, thuggish
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guys serving the ships in the navy can like him, armageddon like them and their problems getting quality management service ever since their beginning really until world war ii. >> what happened? would change? >> a couple things changed. the most important is probably world war ii. once the marines gained some initial name at the start of the workable with a holdout on break i would poker christmas day against repeated japanese attacks, president roosevelt next dimension of them in his state of the union address in the murray's reputation is really re-created because of active intervention by the court and then just the nature of the fighting against japan. so the first major land operation in the pacific, the operation of guadalcanal, the marines really come through some horrible fighting and they hold the island of their reputation is really re-created from that moment forward. >> now, did their mission change over the years organically or
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was it something that was legislatively done? >> yes, the mission changes organically with the active planning of the marine corps. really in the 1950s, something very interesting happened. after world war ii, all the other services in the president and anyone who's qualified to speak on national defense argues nuclear weapons has changed everything. we will never again have another previously in the period he can't move them from ship to shore without nuclear weapons in the army uses this as an argument to radically reduce or perhaps even abolish the marine corps. the marines fight back and they went. as early? as 1947, they start? arguing that the? big word wit? nuclear weapons is probably not? going to happen. they say, how are you going to? keep stability in the cold war? periphery if all you have to something that can add nice??? people.??????? no, you need forces that can do? a wide ?range of famous????
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humanitarian release,?????? peacekeeping, disaster movies, small stability? operations.? they start arguing and 47.??? by 56, the height of the cold?? war they argue explicitly.?? where the soviet union was goin? to happen. you need capable? nonnuclear?? forces that arrive immediately and do lots of things th?at we? are that jack of all trades??? service. so by the late 40s, early 50s, they are building what are called the marine air ground task force, which is today called it amphibious force of readiness. today at all times, there are several thousand marines floating around the world on navy ships with their own planes, tanks, the engineers come in turn supplies, their own water making machines and they are pretty to land on any foreign shore within anywhere depending 2496 hours. once there they can do things like help the existing government or scale all all the way up to combat operations.
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the marines say they need right at the cold war. they build the forces for it. there remains the primary contribution to national defense. >> was very strong, done to push this change? >> there were quite a few who were important, but rather than focus on the leaders, the argument of underdogs that a marine service culture is really an understudy causal factor in all these changes, in the mission changes in their public relations successes and political lobbying, which is a fascinating story. and assorted main argument is the way the marines thought about themselves, the way they thought about warfare and the way they thought about other services was really unique. it was different from the way the other services that they and it gave them a cohesion and assertive energy not seen in the other services. really, it's all an elaborate proof of the claim by dr. samuel
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jackson of an indian it concentrates his mind wonderfully. the mine fought in world war ii? and korea had a lot of experience with the dean donate to live. the result is when they came home and they thought threats to their service, institutional threat inside the defense establishment, it paymaster an extraordinary amount of cohesion and focus to push back this attempt very successfully. >> first of all, what was the marines roll in korea? >> the marines were the first forces. they were the first forces sent in, but the marines were sent as conventional combat troops to push back the north korean advance. they fought alongside the army doing the exact same thing as the army. but they got there early in the reason they got there early is because as soon as the north koreans invaded on 25 june, 1950, even though the marine corps had no orders to the president for the joint chiefs, they immediately started mustering troops which got on
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ship and arrived in korea in less than a month. these guys came with their own aviation. so what this meant in the critical first battle to stop the north korean advance that the marines were doing what is called combined arms operation. but the infantry was moving, they have their own planes in naval aviation's overhead. the ability to arrive immediately and be ready for combat right away was exactly what the marine said the support after world war ii when the other services for saying no, nuclear weapons, you won't do that anymore. >> you mention political lobbying on behalf of either marines. how did that occur quite >> of his extraordinary. >> after world war ii, we do away with the word apartment in navy department and principal cabinet positions that create what will become the department of defense. in the started this process, the president of all the other services were more or less on board with radically reducing the marines involved in national
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defense. they didn't want a second land army, which is what they though? were a sitcom to buy world war? ii. the marines took some of their smartest and most? well-connec? officers and really became??? insurgents inside the defense?? establishment.????????? they broke rules, they stole to? secret documents, they copied?? them, keep them out to the??? press. they directly violated the orders of the president.???? ?ey almost got there, don't?? believed.?? and he? did all of this becaus? they believed the corbis at ris? and the only way they? could s? if it was not by working with?? the rules, but working outside this? rules.??????? it was an extraordinary success. not only did they defeat the? first round of? legislation, b? ? 1953 they get there, done on? the joint chiefs.???????? he goes from being? a two star? major general to a four-star general with a role on the joint chiefs of staff.???????? they get a special protection b? congress this is the marine corps will not be? any smaller? than three divisions and three
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air wings and mr. president, you ?n't change that.????? it's a remarkable achievement for military service to get congress to reach into the president's prerogative on how we shall structure the armed?? forces than they did it through ?ckdoor?? lobbying.????? >> was president eisenhower fan? of the? marines?????? >> neither truman or eisenhower were fans of the? marines.??? both are army veterans.????? eisenhower said chief of staff of the army when they did the? first restructuring under which marines beat back very????? successfully. president truman was famously said in? his letter and cautio? pace that the braves have a? propaganda machine that is??? ?most equal to stalin.???? this gets me so much of a???? piteous he is making his public? apology and that's the date the? mobilize their coalition for?? three divisions in three rings in response to truman's bl?ow ? >> are you a marine click?? >> im.? >> when did you serve?????? square. >> i joined in 1995 straight out of college.??
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trinity college in hartford connecticut and graduate work a? io.???? i served on active duty for five years and up in the the reserves ever? since.???? site 17 years and now, but i'm? incognito at the naval academy? until summertime and then i get? a haircut.???? >> word you serve???????? >> i've served in afghanistan about a year ago and in the??? pentagon's been quite a few??? different positions and then also at camp lejeune, north carolina and a little independent duty station in south bend, indiana. >> what are some of the tension the marines have the navy, because there is a relationship ? there quick??????? >> yes, i wouldn't say they're ? major tensions now. one of the benefits of being? ? historian as you can hide? in e past and don't have to do too?? much work in the??? present.? really the modern marine corps today is a remarkable success?? story. the tensions are very? though.? it is interesting that in the?? 40s the navy spent a lot of??? time telling the marines but??
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hey, we take care of you.?? we provide the? ships.????? we p?ay for your airplanes. we pay for a lot of the? ?uipment? you use.????? and you should be happy where h? are. after? the creation of this?? amphibious forces in readiness? after korea, after world war ii? comes a story change somewhat in that the hate pimento cut?? funding for the navy.???? if you lose the navy, you don't? have right? taskforces that co? land all over the world? and i? is good teams.????? so the relationship is a little? reverse. the institutional power of the? marine corps is radically different now than it was in? ? 1940s.????? for a few examples. there's 3% of the active-duty armed?? services.??????? in 1941, the 50,000 men.???? today there's 200,000.??? they are 14% of the armed forces of the active-duty.???? then they had no public????? relations apparatus. they created office of four people? in 1841.????? now they have a rather????? elaborate.? i don't think anyone would disagree they have been?????
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incredibly successful brand of? the procedures all accounts in? more films and videos and television shows than you could? possibly mention.???????? this is all evidence of their?? ability to create powerful civilian mil?itary? alliance s that protected their interest in times of war, times of peace. ? the term marine is????? misleading, isn't it quick >> nowadays it is.??????? here's a great proof of the??? marine institutional success.?? the marines are inherently tied? to the navy and i suppose that? expertise is amphibious operation, moving from ship to? shore. if that's true, why is general john allen of the united states? marine corps the top commander? of all nato and coalition troops in afghanistan, perhaps the??? single most landlocked country in the world with the possible exception of chad?????? the reason is the marines have? expanded? their missions and re in national? defense.
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so it doesn't seem right. why are they called marines that they're fighting an amount of?? afghanistan????????? >> y "underdogs"? would you call this book "underdogs"? >> the marines have a name for themselves called double dogs, which comes from world war i. the best term to describe how marines thought of themselves as underdogs. they were always a minority culture. very small institution inside the defense establishment and they always felt from the beginning to be persecuted and under risk, under threat, under siege by the army and navy, who do great at attempt to the numbers, reduce their funding or even abolish them out right. the single most important touristic of the culture is this notion that if they don't do everything they can to win alliances, protect their interests, they'll be wiped out. >> aaron o'connell, is that
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underdog feeling reinforced in the marines? >> is still alive and well today. i must be clear, there's some very positive elements of the cultural tree. it's made the mixture of really focused and energized and cohesive. even today a time when they have legislative protections, unquestionably prestigious, popular and important about presidents don't typically dare insult them as they did in the 40s and knees. birds will still say we've got to watch out, take care of our? own. if we don't, no one else ?will? the public stops caring about?? the marine corps, the marine corps will cease to exist. >> i teach marine corps history. i teach naval history as well. i teach some classes on afghanistan and civil military relations. >> so, can the midshipman transition into the ma?rine?? corps???????? ?? any ship over there????? >> after the roughly 20% each year go to the marine corps. it's a very competitive selection?? process.???? ?there's marines who want to?? become then there are slots for?
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them. they can transition quite well. we had a number of marines here at the naval academy, both in?? the classroom in them and their company staff, who give them show is a familiarization culture. >> professor o'connell from whe? he served on active duty, did you ever serve on a ship? >> i never did, which is rare. i'm an exception.?? 12 for my 17 years were reserved time and it's less spend time at ownership as a reserve. >> you mentioned you were io and that rocks in his back on campus. is it prohibited on many campuses anymore? >> no, it's illegal to prohibit them, but many schools have not got them out after the tumble 71860s. so they are coming back. you'll just started an air force program. >> what's been the response? >> or a positive. i would say there was more impetus for the students to bring it back then there was
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that the faculty did not resist it in any way. you will dissertation committee members now, teaching the naval history class after paul kennedy. >> brand-new book on the market, "underdogs" is the name of it. "underdogs: the making of the modern marine corps." marine and professor aaron o'connell is the author. >> here's a look at upcoming book fairs and festivals happening around the country:


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